Archive of Our Own

Chapter Text

So I've seen a few fun "Nightwing meets the Red Hood before Dick knows it's Jason" or "Dick meets the Red Hood as a mob subordinate and has a bad time" but like... the timelines are off and Dick was never in a 'subordinate' position, never mind in one to meet the Red Hood. So here's a rough timeline of events in the order they occurred based on publication date and on-panel cross references to other events. 

This timeline focuses on Dick Grayson before the events of UTRH, but it will divert to discuss what Tim, Stephanie and Jason were up to at or around the same time so as to discuss why, outside of real life ownership issues, they did not cameo or help out in each other's series. 

Time Line of Publications and Events 

Last Laugh, was published in 2001.

This is the infamous comic where Dick decides to kill the Joker, goes, starts and consciously stops even while under the influence of an evil empath (originally planned to be the Joker's replacement)... until Joker name drops Jason and then Dick beats him to death with his bare hands. This comic was written years before the Red Hood, and Jason's resurrection, was even a concept. At this point in the narrative, Jason may or may not be coherent but he is certainly is not stateside yet. With the addition of the All Caste comics, the exact date of “when did Jason return to the states in canon” is... fuzzy. At best guess and accounting for the four year irl time gap it feels like it would have been less than two years before Jason returns but more than a few months. 

Stephanie Brown is Spoiler, but not yet Robin. 

Steph debuted in 1992, so she’s around already but she won't be Robin until July of 2004. 

Jason's first appearance post resurrection is a retcon and I don't love it but it is  canon. 

Jason "first" shows himself to Bruce by suddenly appearing and slitting Tim’s throat during the Hush storyline in Batman #618 (October 2003). This initially was written as Clayface in a disguise. Nearly three years later, it was retconned, in Batman Annual #25 (May 2006), to be not be Clayface but instead Jason who “secretly switched places with Clayface” midway through the conflict. How? I do not fucking know. It doesn't really work but it's a comic. 

Tim & Dick have a HORRIBLE Time From 2003 - 2006.

Dick watches Donna Troy (his best friend and platonic soulmate) die in the process of saving Dick's life in “Titans: Graduation Day” (2003). NOTE: Donna is revived in 2005, in a stand-alone comic, the same year as Jason Todd!

Dick keeps himself notably isolated the entire issue dealing with the aftermath of Donna's death. The authors (Johns, Winick and Jimenez) confirm that it was entirely intentional. We see Lian comfort Roy, Bruce comfort Diana, and we follow Cassie the entire issue. We then even turn to see the Titans, Starfire, Tim's Young Justice Crew, Jennifer's mom then Diana again all continue to process. But the whole issue long we watched Dick intentionally isolate himself and stay, eerily, silent. He refused to answer Roy's calls. He refused to give Tim any answer at all, which is decidedly against past precedent to the point of being OOC if not for the circumstances. He's seen perched above where Diana and Bruce are talking and Diana's words very much reflect Dick's unusual silence and anger and sadness. She was part of his soul. 

The Blockbuster arc begins in March of 2004 and includes fun times such as:

• Blockbuster hires Firefly to burn Haly's Circus to the ground while Dick is there performing. Nightwing Vol 2, #88 (March 2004)

• Blockbuster blows up Dick's apartment building, making him homeless while simultaneously killing most of his (innocent) neighbors. It's important to note that Dick owned the building and was intentionally renting to low-income families and people down on their luck as he could afford to set the rent low for all of them and keep it a safe place generally. Nightwing Vol 2, #90 (March 2004). Dick goes to Babara for help afterwards and she ever so kindly tells him he can "sleep on her doormat." "As a favor." "Because they're old friends." (Wow.) 

• Blockbuster hires over a dozen assassins and mercenaries. Dick at this point is at the end of his rope and takes them all out, including Boone aka Shrike, nearly over night. Nightwing Vol 2, #90-91 (April 2004). Dick's been shot twice at this point too. Nightwing Vol 2, #75-93(March - May 2004)

• The script changes hands to Devin Grayson (much Beloathed) as of Vol 2 #93. It's drastic change in tone and characterization of Dick and most fans agree that it was not only jarring but frankly was a turn for the worse. DC comics eventually agreed as they took the Renegade arc away from her before it could be finished and actively scrapped all of her notes, kept her away from the team as it was finished, and in her own words it was "a complete shock" to her. But she had the reins for the remainder of Blockbuster and the first two thirds of Renegade. 
• A reporter who Blockbuster hired to get more information on Dick Grayson (Nightwing) discovers that he's not a bad person at all and sympathizes with him in an almost maternal way. Blockbuster kills her in front of Dick.

• 

  

• Dick is suddenly fired from his job as a police detective because Blockbuster leaked his ID to the cops. (Nightwing Vol 2, #93 (July 2004)
  • It's important again to note WHY Dick became a police officer and then Detective. Dick joined the Bludhaven Police to try and work out where the corruption in the system was coming from and was actively as both a cop and Nightwing arresting and otherwise holding the cooked cops responsible / weeding them out of the system. LUCKILY, his partner Detective Amy R (not a love interest btw)is the one who intercepts the reveal - and while she doesnt like or believe in vigilantes, she does trust Dick. She gets him fired, allegedly to try and keep him safe, but keeps his ID a secret. She later, after taking over as the new Captain of their precinct, retroactively deputizes Dick and clears him of all charges for Blockbusters death saying Dick shot him, correctly & legally, while in the line of duty (when he tries to turn himself in). 
• Catalina Flores aka Tarantula shoots Blockbuster, Dick (finally) has a panic attack and a breakdown. Nightwing Vol 2, #93 (July 2004))
• He's then raped on the rooftop in the middle of said panic attack, saying "No... don't touch me..." on panel. Nightwing Vol 2, #93 (July 2004))
• Dick then has a mental breakdown while Catalina drags him around the city, got and then kept him drunk, raped him repeatedly (now rape because Dick was never sober enough to consent + the continued lack of consent from the start) and also tried to drag him to a courthouse to marry him!
• She actually has to let Dick sober up for that and the authors acknowledge that and let Dick FINALLY begin to come back to coherence) Nightwing Vol 2, #93 - #108 

WE OVERLAP BACK TO GOTHAM AT THIS POINT FOR MAJOR EVENTS

• Jack Drake, while the above is going on in Bludhaven, finds out Tim is Robin during Robin #124 (May 2004) and confronts Bruce about it at gunpoint. 

• In Robin #125 (June 2004) Jack forces Tim to quit and does his best to keep Tim away specifically from Bruce Wayne.

• Dick later has it out over the whole thing with Bruce... who's take away verbatim is "Bruce Wayne is disposable -- a regrettable casualty in the war that goes on. Batman is the only identity that matters."
  • Which... most people agree that IS Bruce's perspective but it sure as shit did not answer any of Dick's concerns about his, Barbara, Cass, Stephanie, and Tim's ID's been exposed over all now that Jack Drake (among many other more concerning people) knew their IDs and was bearing a grudge. 
• Stephanie steps into the role of Robin in Robin #126 (July 2004), but she is "fired" at the end of Robin #128 (Sep 2004) which then sets off War Games.
• War Games is an event across Bat titles in 2004, the main take away from the arc is that it ends with Steph’s death (later retconned to be fake, but at the time it was written to be real) in Batman #633 (Dec 2004)

• Jack is murdered by Captain Boomerang in Identity Crisis #5 (Dec 2004) and it looks like Jack died only days after Stephanie.
• Meaning War Games and Identity Crisis apparently in universe occur within the same WEEK. OUCH.
• Dana Winters, Jack Drake's much younger new wife, is hospitalized due to her grief over Jack’s death. She moves to / is sent to a hospital in Blüdhaven. Robin #132 (Jan 2005). Tim moves to Bludhaven (as he's no longer Robin) to stay with her/has to as he's still a minor.

JASON OVERLAP POINT

• The Under the Red Hood storyline starts. (Feb 2005). This details Jason’s official return to Gotham to cause problems for everyone, starts in Batman #635 immediately following War Games. So like, just after the worst week of Tim’s life so far. Fun reminder that Jason was a pimp and a drug dealer and also committing something between serial killings and multiple murders.

• The Teen Titans books get a bit out of sync timeline-wise with stuff going on for Tim around War Games. During Teen Titans #20 (March 2005) Tim is shown grieving over his father’s death as though that just occurred.
• The Titans Tower incident in which Jason breaks in to beat the shit out of Tim takes place in Teen Titans Vol 3 #29 (Dec 2005)
  • Donna Troy has just been revived at this point. Jason actually breaks her remembrance statue while ranting at Tim… which is funny because much like Jason’s Robin memorial, we see Dick actively argue with the Titans about the hall! Short of it is: Dick is not a fan of memorials to superheroes when it places that fact as more important than the hero as a person.
  • Only Victor Stone (Cyborg) Garfield Logan (Beast Boy) and Raven are in the Tower when Jason breaks in. He tasers Cyborg and BB out and drugs Raven. 

I cannot stress HOW RIDICULOUS Jason is through all of this. Also, because there is no Robin suit with yellow leggings like this, most fans agree that Jason was originally intended to be pantless through the whole fight and honestly, I agree. But wow does it add to the hilarity.

• A moment to note that Tim is neither scared of Jason nor apologetic for being Robin. He actually trash talks Jason through out this entire beating, the little egotistical mad man.

• About the nicest thing Tim says about Jason's time as Robin is that Jason nearly ruined it for everyone else. SAVAGE.

• Anyway, Jason then dips as the Titans wake up and storm their own Tower. He leaves a creepy message written in Tim's blood. 

WHAT REALLY GETS ME IS THAT NO ONE, NOT A ONE OF THEM, APPARENTLY CALLS Dick Grayson ABOUT THIS.

...Where is Dick anyway? Last we saw him he was recovering in the Manor from being shot in the thigh around War Games. 

• Dick is once again having major doubts as to whether he can be a hero and has quit being a vigilante. He joins the Tevis mob family as himself. (May 2005 in Nightwing #108). He's returned to Bludhaven sans job, sans place to live, sans basically everything, and his family a mess over in Gotham. Point of fact, Dick leaves his Nightwing suit next to Jason's Robin memorial. 

• • Dick at this point has QUIT vigilantism and is WORKING FOR THE MOB while on crutches and down a leg. (Nightwing 108 published May 2005)
  • He's doing this AS HIMSELF, no secret ID or made up names

• • The mob family basically adopts him, with the boss (Tommy Tevis) frequently calling Dick “his son” (“before I knew it, I got myself a son.”) to anyone who asks about “Crutches”.

• • Like, I cannot stress hard enough that the mob family loved him genuinely and that Tommy Tevis honestly seemed to think he was going to pass the whole thing on to Dick to take over at some point down the line. Dick, meanwhile, never seems aware that this is not how joining the fucking mob usually works out for people. 
  • Dick ends up doing work for BLACK MASK (to forge the Tevis family ties to the Gotham crime scene). Mask decides to send Dick to go get information about the state of Bludhaven and, critically, basically eliminate them all which is not a one-man job wtf.

• • If Dick had been tasked with staying in Gotham, it would have put him on a direct collision course with the Red Hood. 
  • So Dick heads back to Bludhaven and.. (also that's Tommy's 15 year old, little-sister-zoned, daughter Sophia).

• Dick is pulled away from the mob and Gotham BY DEATHSTROKE THE TERMINATOR — who is there to hire Dick to train his daughter, Rose.

• Slade sweetens the contract by letting Dick join as Slade’s representative to a super villain society that the bats have been attempting to track. Talia, hilariously as she was allegedly supporting Jason’s Gotham plans, is a part of this society!
• Also just the way Slade is staring right into the “camera” as Dick zings him and walks away is so funny to me 
• Under the Red Hood ends, with the two watching Slade’s bomb hit Bludhaven (Nightwing Vol 2, #116 in March 2006) from Gotham’s shoreline. Bruce cuts Jason's throat and leaves him there, possibly to bleed out for all Bruce knows. Bruce leaves to try and find Dick (or Dick’s presumed corpse). Batman #649.

***Just before Bruce throws a batarang and opens Jason's throat, Bruce and Jason watch a bomb hit Bludhaven. Jason taunts Bruce horribly, noting that Dick is certainly dead. "My God... is Nightwing there? Imagine that. One son returns from the grave as another enters it. What a fitting ending this has become. Good God, the ironies abound. Here we are and you have to run to the cite of an explosion to dig through the wreckage and find the body of your 'boy sidekick.' If he's there Bruce... You're too late. Again."

Bruce begs Jason to let him leave to go to Bludhaven (to yeah, look for Dick's corpse).
"NO! You're not leaving Not now! Not this time!" "Jason Please, I-"
Jason refuses, and gets ANGRY. "What? You 'have to be sure?' Getting out of THAT alive would be one neat trick. It'd take a hell of a lot more than batarangs and few escrima sticks to survive. If ol' Dickie is there, he's dead. And if you leave..."

And that's around when Bruce stops pleading and talking and starts hitting. Like, Bruce seemed to be ready to negotiate and forgive all the killing and drug running and car bombing and beating up Tim and mass murder... but Jason ruined everything by laughing at the idea of Dick Grayson dying. That was too far. Batarang.

Batman #650 (Feb 2006)

This is argued to have actually killed Jason for a second time, by the by. It's undone in the Nu52 when Superman... punches the universe... yeah. Sigh. And that's one of the least stupid things about Nu52. 

Also Jason doesn't run into Dick in person again until Nightwing #119 when he make some questionable choices, including stealing a Nightwing Suit (or just, making his own as he's won't to do. See the Robin suit above!) 

Like... it's arguable that Jason was genuinely trying to reach out to Dick after having heard about Blockbuster's death (and possibly the dozen of assassins Dick single handedly took out in a mere few hours). Its just that he did so while wearing a Nightwing suit and got Dick's attention by killing people in it and decided to mouth off about what is probably one of the worst experiences of Dick’s life… Nightwing v2 #119. 

So that's the time line of events!

Some fans have speculated that it would have been interesting to see this depressed and honestly jaded Dick run into Jason Todd….

And I disagree because holy shit I think Jason would be in for a TERRIBLE TIME.

Like all the takes I’ve seen misunderstand that the Tevis family was allied with BLACKMASK. They were NOT looking to join up with the unestablished and murderous Red Hood and Dick was not only in a terrible place mentally he was actively choosing violence, where he was both the victor and aggressor, as his coping mechanism. 

So that'll be the next chapter, and my own attempt as what it could have looked like considering all of the above.